Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

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Rentsy

Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Rentsy » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:55 am

Oh how things change. I've shot quite a few guns in the last few weeks, but the one that was the most fun was a Glock. Never had any problems feeding, no problems with the trigger, shots grouping nicely where I pointed the sights (I was told that I qualified for some police shooting exams, which says more about those than about me).

In terms of caliber, I'm thinking 9mm for shootability (It was genuinely fun to fire a Glock 34, quite literally painless). That, coupled with the lower price and general higher availability than other calibers makes it my choice.

Unfortunately, they've come a long way since the Glock 17, and now they have a bewildering array of very similar models.

Basically, I need help choosing.

I also have heard rumors about a thing known as "Gun maintenance". A short explanation of how to care for a handgun would be nice.

Someday I'll have the time/money to take the plunge buy a nice 1911 in .45. Until then, I'd like to buy a good pistol and learn technique.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby mekender » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:09 am

maintenance on a glock??? no such thing... clean it every 1000 rounds and run a bore snake through it after every range session.... tear it apart real good for a cleaning every 10k rounds... it will out last you.
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DougWojtowicz

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby DougWojtowicz » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:15 am

Glock 17 is just fine, the Glock 34 has a sweet trigger and balance, and the Glock 19 is the perfect size.

Everything else is just caliber preference, though the bigger caliber 10mm and .45 ACP Glocks have harder grips to handle.

(Oddly, the 21 with no grooves sits FINE in my hand, while the Glock 30 makes my hand feel like it's stretching to hold it properly.)

Joe ex PNG

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Joe ex PNG » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:59 am

As Doug said, with Glocks it's all a matter of caliber and size. For 9mm, your choices are:
G-26: Sub-compact. Short barrel and grip, good CCW gun.
G-19: Compact. Very good all rounder.
G-17: Full sized.
G-34: Long slide. More for shooting competions, but great if you can carry openly or professionally.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby randy » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:28 pm

I would recommend checking the firing pin channel occassionaly and cleaning any debris out or it.

A friend of mine did field testing of the Glock for the Hawaiian Maritime Patrol (don't remember the exact name of the organization). He carried it every day on duty and brought it out to the weekly combat pistol match to use.

Other than swabbing out the barrel, he performed no maintenance for several thousand rounds. First failure he had was caused by brass being shaved from the cases by the extractor, and eventually enough of the shavings built up in the firing pin channel to prevent the pin from hitting full force.

Blowing into the channel and tapping out the shavings cleared the problem.

Don't know if it's a continuing issue with the extractor design (this was close to 20 years ago now), or just the brass he was using, but something to keep in mind.
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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Aglifter » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:16 pm

Is an XD out of the question?
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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Aaron » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:13 pm

Aglifter wrote:Is an XD out of the question?


Beat me to the punch. However, my biggest reason for recommending the XD is that it has the same benefits of the Glock without a grip that makes many people feel like it was designed by aliens.

If he's comfortable with a Glock, I say go for it. Although borrowing an XD and trying it out might not be amiss.

In either case, aesthetics will just have to wait until he gets a 1911... :roll:
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sam

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby sam » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:01 pm

If it is just going to be a "fun" gun, get the 34, or 17. If you are going to carry it, 19 or 26.

I know a guy who torture tested his G35 (.40S&W), not cleaning it except for occasionally swabbing out the barrel. The frame split at about 70,000 rounds. He's an FFL, so not a big deal for him to get a new frame.

Rentsy

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Rentsy » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:33 am

sam wrote:I know a guy who torture tested his G35 (.40S&W), not cleaning it except for occasionally swabbing out the barrel. The frame split at about 70,000 rounds. He's an FFL, so not a big deal for him to get a new frame.


That's torture... for the guy shooting. What's FFL

Note to all: Thank you for all of the responses. I will now have to spend some time considering the XD...

[edit] About sights... I really just want no-nonsense sights that will stay zeroed. What, if any, modifications would I consider to a factory Glock (Or XD, because "thou shalt have no other gun before me" isn't a commandment)
Last edited by Rentsy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby randy » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:37 am

Rentsy wrote:What's FFL


Federal Firearms License (or licensee in this context). What anyone selling a firearms as a business needs to do it legally.
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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby mekender » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:23 am

Rentsy wrote:
sam wrote:I know a guy who torture tested his G35 (.40S&W), not cleaning it except for occasionally swabbing out the barrel. The frame split at about 70,000 rounds. He's an FFL, so not a big deal for him to get a new frame.


That's torture... for the guy shooting. What's FFL

Note to all: Thank you for all of the responses. I will now have to spend some time considering the XD...

[edit] About sights... I really just want no-nonsense sights that will stay zeroed. What, if any, modifications would I consider to a factory Glock (Or XD, because "thou shalt have no other gun before me" isn't a commandment)


Yeah, 70K rounds is above what any normal user will fire in their lifetime. A competitor will do that in a couple of years. Someone that isnt competing will shoot perhaps a couple of hundred a year or so.

As for sights, there are a lot of options, the standard Glock night sites are pretty good. the XS sights are good as well. There are also a lot of companies that will put fiber optic night sights in too.
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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Aglifter » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:50 am

I have XS big dots on mine, but I like them, and have put them on, almost, all my pistols, so...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Jeffro » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:26 am

mekender wrote:As for sights, there are a lot of options, the standard Glock night sites are pretty good.


+1 - my first gen 22 has 'em, and they are just fine.

You might consider a "slug plug" that fills the hole in the grip - I've heard it both ways whether they protect the innards or not. I just like the way they fill the hole, personally.

There are a lot of quality used guns out there that authorized Glock dealers handle that were police trade ins and run through Glock to get checked out. You might not get the third generation models, but you can get the first and second easily. The second generation has mounting rails for accessories that the first generation lacked.

Chris has a writeup stashed away where he tells how to lighten the trigger on a Glock - it isn't something you want to take lightly, but it's easier than it sounds.
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Rentsy

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Rentsy » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:35 am

Jeffro wrote:
mekender wrote:Chris has a writeup stashed away where he tells how to lighten the trigger on a Glock - it isn't something you want to take lightly, but it's easier than it sounds.


My claim to fame is that I've read Chris' blog. Like at least 80% of all material up there. I know what you are talking about, and it was quite challenging.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby mekender » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:04 am

Rentsy wrote:
Jeffro wrote:
mekender wrote:Chris has a writeup stashed away where he tells how to lighten the trigger on a Glock - it isn't something you want to take lightly, but it's easier than it sounds.


My claim to fame is that I've read Chris' blog. Like at least 80% of all material up there. I know what you are talking about, and it was quite challenging.



might i ask what state you are in?
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944

Rentsy

Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Rentsy » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:05 am

I live in California, so step 1 is deciding to buy a gun, and step 2 is reading up on the gun laws.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby 308Mike » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:17 am

Rentsy wrote:I live in California, so step 1 is deciding to buy a gun, and step 2 is reading up on the gun laws.


You'll need to take a handgun safety class and get the certificate. Your dealer will need a copy.

Effective January 1, 2003, the Basic Firearms Safety Certificate Program was replaced with the Handgun Safety Certificate Program. These new statutes affect the general public in two principal ways. First, unless exempt, individuals must possess a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) prior to purchasing or acquiring a handgun. Second, unless exempt, individuals must perform a safe handling demonstration prior to taking delivery of a handgun from a licensed dealer.

HSCs are acquired by taking and passing a written test on handgun safety, generally at participating firearms dealerships and private firearms training facilities. A Handgun Safety Certificate Study Guide [PDF 762 kb / 56 pg] to help individuals prepare for the Handgun Safety Certificate Test is available for purchase at firearms dealerships at $.50 each. There is also a Handgun Safety Certificate Video available for purchase at firearms dealerships or from DOJ Certified Instructors at $5.00 each.

The handgun safety demonstration protocols and DOJ Certified Instructor standards have been established and implemented by DOJ. An explanation of the handgun safety demonstration can be found starting on page 45 of the Handgun Safety Certificate Study Guide. [PDF 762 kb / 56 pg]

For additional information regarding the Handgun Safety Certificate Program. Please choose from the following:



If you want to start going over some of California's firearms laws, the quick and easy way is to check out the Firearms division of the CA DOJ.

If you want to research specific sections to read the actual language of the law, head over to the California Law portion of the legislature.
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Rumpshot » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:46 am

308MikeYou'll need to take a handgun safety class and get the certificate. Your dealer will need a copy.


Mike,
I owned several handguns while I lived in PRK. I still own property and frequently visit. I often bring one or more handgun with me. Properly (spit, spit) LOCKED in a safe, with the magazine removed and stored separately.

The question: Do I need a "certificate" to possess my legally owned handgun while in PRK?

Guess I will need to get on the ball and get my AZ CCW. I already have enough paper trails pointing at me that one more probably won't hurt.
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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby 308Mike » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:46 am

No, only to purchase a handgun (California Penal Code Sections):

12800. It is the intent of the Legislature in enacting this article
to require that persons who obtain handguns have a basic familiarity
with those firearms, including, but not limited to, the safe
handling and storage of those firearms. It is not the intent of the
Legislature to require a handgun safety certificate for the mere
possession of a firearm.


There are no exceptions for people who have previously owned arsenals and hundred of handguns, including competition shooters unless they're one of the following:

12807. (a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted
from the handgun safety certificate requirement in subdivision (b)
of Section 12801:
(1) Any active or honorably retired peace officer, as defined in
Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(2) Any active or honorably retired federal officer or law
enforcement agent.
(3) Any reserve peace officer, as defined in Section 832.6.
(4) Any person who has successfully completed the course of
training specified in Section 832.
(5) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071, who is
acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a person
licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(6) A federally licensed collector who is acquiring or being
loaned a handgun that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section
478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, who has a
current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the
department pursuant to Section 12071.
(7) A person to whom a handgun is being returned, where the person
receiving the firearm is the owner of the firearm.
(8) A family member of a peace officer or deputy sheriff from a
local agency who receives a firearm pursuant to Section 50081 of the
Government Code.
(9) Any individual who has a valid concealed weapons permit issued
pursuant to Section 12050.
(10) An active, or honorably retired member of the United States
Armed Forces, the National Guard, the Air National Guard, the active
reserve components of the United States, where individuals in those
organizations are properly identified. For purposes of this section,
proper identification includes the Armed Forces Identification Card,
or other written documentation certifying that the individual is an
active or honorably retired member.
(11) Any person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms
pursuant to subdivision (c) or (d) of Section 12031.
(12) Persons who are the holders of a special weapons permit
issued by the department pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, or
12305.
(b) The following persons who take title or possession of a
handgun by operation of law in a representative capacity, until or
unless they transfer title ownership of the handgun to themselves in
a personal capacity, are exempted from the handgun safety certificate
requirement in subdivision (b) of Section 12801:
(1) The executor or administrator of an estate.
(2) A secured creditor or an agent or employee thereof when the
firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, or an
agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as
collateral for, or as a result of, a default under a security
agreement under the Commercial Code.
(3) A levying officer, as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or
680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
(4) A receiver performing his or her functions as a receiver.
(5) A trustee in bankruptcy performing his or her duties.
(6) An assignee for the benefit of creditors performing his or her
functions as an assignee.
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Whirlibird » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:02 am

Get whichever one you like.
17, 19, 19L, 34......

They're all good. (choke, cough, sputter)(All hail JMB!)

I will say that the Glocks and Springfield XD's are pretty much abuse resistant.

However I will post this link, it's not for the faint of heart.
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

9mm is a fine choice, not my favorite but I'd rather have one than a .40.
Ammo's cheap enough to shoot enough to get good.
And good defensive rounds are available today unlike 20+ years ago.

Replace the recoil spring every couple of thousand rounds and watch your trigger return spring and you're good to go for about 20 years.

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Re: Need advice on the purchase of a Glock

Postby Glenn Bartley » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:11 am

Glock is a fine choice of defensive pistol. If you’re looking to a 9mm, the 19 is a good one, or if you need a more concealable pistol, the 26 is hard to beat.

As for maintenance, in order for any pistol, including a Glock, to be depended upon as a reliable self defense pistol, it will require regular maintenance. Anyone who says otherwise is being foolish with your life, since they are trying to get you to believe it does not need the same maintenance as do other pistols. Maintenance from purely shooters end is usually quite simple. it involves regular cleaning and lubrication of the firearm, at least with as much regularity as recommended by the manufacturer.

My personal preference is to field strip and clean, then lubricate, any pistol I have fired as soon after firing it as is practical. If you want to decide otherwise that is your choice. For example, if you want to listen to these words about firearms a maintenance as opposed to mine, go ahead:

maintenance on a Glock??? no such thing... clean it every 1000 rounds and run a bore snake through it after every range session.... tear it apart real good for a cleaning every 10k rounds... it will out last you.


I find that advice to be rather cavalier and less than responsible, but yet probably from a user who is trying to truly be helpful and who likes Glocks. While it could be that someone actually believes that such poor maintenance is all that is needed, I would ask - "Do you want to bet your life on it?". Why do I say that. Well I have some experience with Glock, and many other pistols. That experience would amount to about 15 to 18 years worth of experience firing them (just the Glock), and probably at least 10 years instructing others how to fire them (just the Glock, more for others) sadly I was to have become a Glock Armorer, but my class was scheduled on a bad day, 9/11/2001, and I opted to return to my office in NYC rather than stay in class. Still I have some experience in taking them apart and putting them back together, and much more experience in any problems they pose to a 'just shooter' type of person. They are good pistols - but they are not super pistols - they require regular maintenance to perform reliably.

The best thing you can do with any firearm in general, is to take it out of the box new (or used) AFTER having read the instructions from the manufacturer if available, clean it, lube it, fire it, then repeat the cleaning and lubing bits. To clean it, you do not just run a bore snake through it. You disassemble it in a field stripping. You clean the barrel interior and exterior. You clean the frame, especially parts that have become fouled. You clean the slide, paying extra attention to under the extractor claw where buildup occurs quickly and where it can cause a problem with any semi-auto pistol with an extractor. You do this after each time you fire it, even if you only fired one shot. Follow the manufacturers instructions for making the weapon safe, for disassembly, for cleaning, for lubrication, for reassembly and so forth.

With Glock I also recommend at least a yearly check of the firing pin canal; this is based upon first hand experience - maybe even first experience of the problem that can occur. This is no BS, just fact: About 10 or 12 years ago (could have been longer), I complained to my primary firearms instructor on my job that the firing pin of my Glock 19 was staying in a protruded position out of the firing pin housing. I was concerned over a slam fire. No one seemed to think it was a big problem. They checked the gun. They pushed on the firing pin, it went back in but sluggishly. They striped it down all the way. When the firing pin was removed from its housing, it was seen that there was a buildup of brass shavings inside the housing. There was also a bit of gunk from oil and fouling. All in all it had accumulated in there and basically jammed the firing pin in a forward or strike position. It could be pushed back with a little force as I already said, and when a round was chambered it had gone back inside the housing, but it was an obvious problem. A little more brass, fouling, or lubricant could have caused a failure or an unwanted shot. They fixed it. First time that problem was seen, on my job anyhow; but you can bet it was seen again.

They contacted Glock. Glock recommended at least a yearly inspection and cleaning of the slide area that housed the firing pin. It was not the fault of ammo, not the fault of the gun, not the fault of the lubricant, not the fault of the shooter - it was the eventual buildup of debris as should have been expected by Glock, and was due to shooting an awful lot. For some reason they forgot to mention this to anyone on my job. Yes I shot a lot, maybe more than you will, but it is not a bad idea to check this every year. I certainly did not shoot anywhere near the 10,000 rounds as suggested above before needing to take it down completely for a really intense cleaning. When others, who had shot their issued Glock less than me, had their guns stripped and cleaned - guess what? The same problem was evident but not as bad. Crap builds up in the firing pin canal. It is, in my opinion, advisable to have it cleaned out by a knowledgeable armorer at least one a year. My job now does this as scheduled maintenance at least once per year.

Other than that, check with Glock (or any firearms manufacturer) now and again about recalls. In the years I have been assigned a Glock 19 there have been at least 5 magazine recalls. Glock willingly exchanged potential problem magazines with new ones of a slightly new design each time. The last time was years ago, but you need to stay atop of possible recalls on any part of any Glock, so check with Glock at least semi-annually on them.

All the best,
Glenn B
When I look in the mirror, I am happy to see, some of that nine year old boy, who used to be me.

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